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Posted on 19/02/09 3:00:55 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
These are all good points. To sum up (as I see it): 1. Constructive criticism is a good thing in the Friday Challenge, since it sharpens our Photoshop skills and gives everyone a chance to submit a second version based on comments received. 2. Criticism should always be accepted in the spirit in which it is given. Having said that, care must be taken when commenting, to ensure that words are not misinterpreted. 3. I really don't need to be thanked at the end of every write-up! As I've said before, it's something I'm more than willing to do. The improvement I see here each week is reward enough. |
Posted on 19/02/09 3:13:25 PM |
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katew
Virtual Virtuoso Posts: 681 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
I agree with what Celia (Mad Lep) says on her first post. Most of us come on here for a bit of practice. My motivation is partly to have a go at the challenges (which I'm well aware aren't always up to professional standards), and partly for the social aspect, as we are quite a small group and it's nice to feel you 'know' each other. Being disabled, I find it hard to get out very much and this is part of my social life! I still don't agree that there is no constructive criticism and it's all backslapping. All right, perhaps there's not much crit this week, but there usually is. And I've seen very few comments along the lines of 'awesome' - for instance, one of the comments on mine this week was that I'd matched the greyscale very well, which was gratifying as I'd worked hard to get that right. There are also ways of criticising. "No one mentions why the woman has a huge head on the Bogart picture" just put me on the defensive, especially since I'd run it past a few family members (who are always very honest, two of them being artists and one a photographer), and they'd said it was fine. If Glen had put a comment in a normal thread, saying something like "I feel that the head's a bit big", I would have taken it on board and considered it again, going back to the original for comparison. I believe that criticism is good, but so is praise. I also agree with Nick Curtain that the rambling threads are a bit much - short comments are much better. I wouldn't want to be Steve, having to drag through pages and pages of chatter just to pick out the images! With regards to thanking Steve, I'm a bit on the fence. He must put a lot of time into carefully looking at images and coming up with his comments and critique, but I'm sure he does not have time to go through all the thanks posts. It would seem rude not to thank him after all that effort, especially if he's said something that will really improve your future work. |
Posted on 19/02/09 3:15:07 PM |
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katew
Virtual Virtuoso Posts: 681 Reply |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
Oops, cross posted with Steve there! |
Posted on 19/02/09 5:33:47 PM |
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Cl&m&nt
** Posts: 112 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
Steve, you know how my first work tomorrow and I feel obliged to thank you. It's very long to read everything and comment on each image. A small thank you not asking for much! So thank you in advance! |
Posted on 19/02/09 6:36:30 PM |
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Glen
Montage Maestro Posts: 282 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
Katew, PM sent to you re this subject and I want to add a big public apology if you felt I was singling you out. The PM says more and I would like to say that to upset you in any way was not my intention and I'm truly sorry if I did. (I've already sent a PM to Anna in reply to hers to me, just in case anyone was wondering) _________________ minds are like parachutes - they only work when they are open |
Posted on 19/02/09 7:00:59 PM |
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katew
Virtual Virtuoso Posts: 681 Reply |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
No apology needed, Glen - see my reply to your PM. |
Posted on 19/02/09 7:18:14 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
First in brief: Constructive comments (critique and support), consider different cultures/personalities, creativity is subjective, various levels of Photoshop experience ..... .... and have some FUN!!! with Photoshop and varied peoples from the Forum Netiquette!! Agree with many of the others' stronger comments too, but enough from me .... FC helps me improve PS (I think ?) Second: some more supporting observations _______ I think an issue is focusing on "criticism", it can have some very negative connotations. I prefer to comment or critique. This should be constructive, but can be both 1) positive and 2) suggests how to maybe fix or change something. If you can see someone has done some good hard work to solve a problem, creative or improved, why not give them a positive comment. This gives incentive especially when we have a wide range of skills. I think this is also meant to be a creative work forum. Creativity can be personal, but guess needs to be within or not far from the brief. This is an Art, don't expect consensus necessarily. (Enough examples of this in history) As others have said, beware of how comments are perceived, not just from "written" word, but also all the different personalities and cultures. Personaly, I welcome constructive comments, which I receive from Steve and others. Finally, as others have said, we are meant to have some fun too. Again potential variations on what "fun" maybe. My scroll button works well if no interest |
Posted on 19/02/09 8:47:57 PM |
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steve hill
Brain Basher Posts: 228 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
Glen first let me say how good it is to see you back. I joined this forum back in 2005 and if it were not for the encouragement, from yourself Steve and others, I would probably given up trying to tame Photoshop. I have joined many Photoshop forums during this time, this being the only one that has lasted the full length of that time. I feel that I learn something new each week, either from completing the challenge or comments / help given to myself or others on the site. I welcome any constructive criticism on my work from Steve or anyone else but a slap on the back can be a good thing too. This site entertains and educate's at the same time thats got to be a good thing, Steve for schools minister. Steve may be the answer could be a member’s option that could be selected showing criticism is welcome; this could appear under the member’s name. I cant recall who mentioned may be a chat room on the site but this might be a good idea steve, some were a faster more responsive discusion, exchange of views and ideas could take place, I have used and helped on an excel one in the past. |
Posted on 19/02/09 10:27:06 PM |
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josephine harvatt
Gag Gadgeteer Posts: 2603 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
I have come a little late to this party but for what it is worth this is my two pennorth... One of the things I like about FC is its informality, the fact that people do not have to stick to the brief if it sparks off an irresistable idea, the notion that a challenge can be undertaken for its own sake rather than to win points or prizes, that we can deviate into a spot of badinage (guilty as charged ). 
I also value the FC for the helpful criticism from Steve and others, nevertheless I believe I would benefit from the FC even without this input just because it is good practice. I do not feel that anyone's efforts deserve to be labelled "cringeworthy" - however much of a beginner someone may be I believe that there is always something positive you can say about their work - and it is as important to know your strengths as your weaknesses. Of course I am a relative newcomer to active participation in the FC and do not know how far it is has altered since its inception, but I feel that the important thing is that people should not be inhibited from being themselves (within the limits of polite discourse !) - if you want to praise someone's work fine - if you want to offer constructive criticism that is fine also. I would be sad if it became too much of a serious "professionals" forum - and I say that as one who, believe it or not, makes a modest living from my photoshop skills _________________ I'm not really bad - I just draw that way |
Posted on 19/02/09 11:16:23 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
I feel quite a few people have been made upset. I've said it before, I enjoy everyones work. Don't take that away from me. And we all can improve. Time does not stand still, there are more of us using PS with a wide range of skills and backgrounds and reasons. Lets enjoy it. 
In my opinion, its not a formal club with rules, but a forum. I think we should encourage new people, from all nationalities Some of this discussion is going stongly against this I feel ....... Critique, good, but very difficult to do it. Steve does a great job. Josephine's comments work for me. |
Posted on 20/02/09 8:55:38 PM |
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Wayne
Printer’s Devil Posts: 312 Reply  |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
There's nothing wrong with having these discussions now and again, if only to make us all think a bit more carefully about what we're posting. The downside, however, is that somebody invariably gets upset and leaves the forum. This time it looks like we've lost Anna (unless she can be persuaded to return) My own view is we should allow the forum to evolve naturally, without imposing too many rules and restrictions. The forum is the sum of its parts i.e. its members. And if it evolves in the direction of members criticising each other's work, then so be it, but I don't think it should be enforced while praise and encouragement is banned. I don't feel motivated to criticise other member's work, but I have given praise when I've seen an entry that I think is well executed, or amusing (and been uplifted when some other member has liked one of mine). I like to think it stops well short of back-slapping. I would personally prefer to leave the serious critique to Steve on Friday morning. Steve, please don't fix what isn't broken! I've participated in three Photoshop-related forums over the last three years, and this one is the only one I've stuck with for the duration. Wayne |
Posted on 23/02/09 8:33:16 PM |
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Paul 2007 thru 2010
Lego Legend Posts: 361 Reply |
Re: The Friday Challenge: constructive criticism?
I remember when the "Thank you Steve" posts started - In the old days people would post their best effort and at the end of the week Steve would spend his time commenting on them and point out any shortcomings. Steve's post, more often than not, would be the last post in the FC that week. Recently the FC seemed to be a race to get the first animated GIF up. It doesn't seem to matter how good you did the FC but as long as you got a GIF uploaded you were fine. I remember a couple of years ago an Irish member making a comment on the GIFs and he left because of the "flack" he got. I made a similar comment over a year ago and was flamed in a PM by someone who has recently left this forum. Animated GIFS are something that Photoshop can do, so obviously they are fair game for the FC. You can't start banning things, but I think they should be done with care and not speed. i.e. Snow White instead of a low budget Japanese Anime. I am not part of the previously mentioned clique despite being a member here for a while now. I don't want to be either. I used to take part every week like most people here, but then like some others I tailed off. But the "luvvie" culture here is very distracting. Maybe there should be an Off Topic area for people who want to chat with friends they make through this forum. That way it would keep the other areas ON topic. As for the forum evolving naturally ... Unlike the universe, HTCIP forum DOES have a divine creator - Steve. |
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