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Posted on 13/09/04 5:56:48 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Instant irregular grid .. ?
Hi ! I've got a question that's not really related to the "How to cheat .. " but I've tried to find some sort of answer or hint in it. Hope it's OK to put it. Otherwise, just kick my behind, ok ? Is there any few-click-magic that can create an irregular line grid ? I'm currently trying to create an inner wall of a very unpleasant castle (think Mordor style). I've painted out the stone structure, dirt, moist roses, grit, algee, fungus and other homely features in a size that will print out a full A4 ( 3000x2250px ((21x29 cm)). What I would like now is that irregular line grid to put on top of all that in an overlay layer to mark out the outlines of the stones in the wall and from there start playing with layerstyles. You can get a hint of what I'm looking for from this image: 
Of course, I could just simply define this image as a pattern, but it's too small to be really useful. Another approach would be to create the grid with the pen tool and do "Stroke Path", but I'm lazy - you know ... Any suggestions ? Jiger. |
Posted on 13/09/04 6:07:41 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7021 Reply  |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Hm. Tricky one. There are no PS tools or plug-ins for creating exactly the effect you want, although there is something vaguely similar in Illustrator - but even that's not quite right. I'm thinking there should be a way of generating random textures (perhaps Clouds filter), then thresholding that, then using something like the Mosaic filter with a very big pixel setting to turn it all into black and white blocks. Which would work, and you'd get a random pattern of squares and rectangles, but you'd also end up with L-shaped pieces, which is no good to you. Anyone else got any ideas on this one? |
Posted on 13/09/04 6:17:35 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Wow, Steve! That was fast !! 
Are you having the day off ..? .. I'll go try out your suggestion. Perhaps I can find some way of using it. I tried the mosaic as you suggested, and got those L-shapes, yes. An advantage in this case is that the image is quite large and the stones should be of "epic" dimensions, so I'll might get away with picking out portions and putting them together. Otherwise - back to digital masoning... Jiger. |
Posted on 14/09/04 08:44:23 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7021 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Another method would be to make a regular grid with big square divisions, and then sketch in where you want the stones to lie. You wouldn't have to be accurate, just a blob would do - perhaps using different shades to distinguish them. If you then used the Mosaic filter with a pixel setting matching the grid divisions, this should then turn the blobs into squares. Quite simple to then extract the cement lies between the squares, I'd have thought. I'll try it out and see if it works... |
Posted on 14/09/04 08:52:18 AM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply  |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
There is an instant way of doing what you describe and it is a Photoshop Filter - The Extrude Filter in the Stylize Filter set. Fill a blank document with 50% gray, Click on The Extrude Filter and set the size of your boxes, set the depth (not too much 5 or less), and ensure random is set. If the size of the blocks are a little too regular, add another layer above and apply the same technique to this layer but with a bigger or smaller block size in the Extrude Filter then apply a Blending mode of Hard Light to this layer to overlay the bottom layer. You can paint out any incongruous lines with a brush set to 50% gray before merging and applying Image/Adjustments/Equalize to define the edges. At this point you may want to add some Guassian Blur and/or Median (from the Noise filter set) to soften and break up the effect a little. When all is finished you can overlay this with a Hard Light Blending mode to your masonary to knockout the gray and leave you with just the shadow and highlight details. This is the effect with some Perspective Free-Transform, Hue & Saturation, and Lighting Effects. 
If the lines are a little too regular for your liking try adding one of the Distort filters - Ocean Ripple seems to work best with a bit of Fade Filter set to luminosity and faded by 50% or so.. This is another example after the Ocean Ripple and cloning out some incongruous lines 
Becky |
Posted on 14/09/04 1:50:42 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Steve. I see no reason why this method should not work. I'll sure give it a go just for the hell of it. I took some time to play around with your first suggestion, got some really interesting patterns from it to add to my collection, but unfortunately non that did what I was looking for. So, ultimately I *did* go with drawing lines with pen tool and stroke path. I already knew it would work but the problem - as I see it - is to be "random" enough to make it look random and irregular. That's why I thought of an "automated" way of generating the grid. Thank you for your very kind assistance. ....................... Maiden ! Those are two very interesting pieces of geometry you've created there. Thank you very much for your suggestion. What I was going for was to get the forge lines between the stones isolated and use that as an overlay layer and give depth to it with Bevel and Emboss, Shadow behind, etc etc. But - my very first impression of what you've created is something that will come very handy in a Sci-Fi environment, and for that I'm very thankful. Actually, it resembles what is known as a "Greeble" which is a very helpful way of producing Hi-Tech and somewhat mystery looks to surfaces and/or objects in that genre. Imagine an alien space ship's hull, for instance. It would be just perfect for that. Another use for a Greeble is to put it in in a 3D app as a displacement map ( grayscale-to-height ) and that way create terraced terrains or city scapes. So, even if I can't use your technique in the image at hand, it will sure come in use in other projects. Thank you for your efforts. Jiger. |
Posted on 14/09/04 1:59:09 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Oh well, it was fun trying to conjure up this interesting pattern even if it's not quite what you were looking for. I suppose I was trying for a Mordor feel with the blue Hue & Saturation but it does look rather more Sci-Fi than Historical. Becky _________________ mad as a badger and twice as furry |
Posted on 14/09/04 2:17:55 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Oh yes, you got that Mordor feel right with the blue toned ambience and grainy structure. I would certainly not go near any wall looking like this. God knows which panel would suddenly swing open and what would come out of it !! 
Actually, it's very fascinating posting q's to the forums here since even if the problem presented is not solved litterarely, the suggestions given will always be useful and/or open new approaches to other situations. Nothing goes waisted. Jiger. |
Posted on 14/09/04 2:44:12 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Here's another go which might be more what you're looking for 
This was achieved by turning on the grid and using the Rectangle Marquee Tool to select every alternative box within the grid and a Stroke of 2pixel, center was applied then select using the Rectangle Marquee Tool a part of the whole image and applying the Ocean Ripple Filter - Ripple size 15, Magnitude 2. Select another area of the image and apply the Ocean ripple filter again do this to several parts of the image just to add some randomness. Using the Rectangle Marquee Tool select each alternate row and select the Move Tool and nudge the selection to alternate the lines as with brickwork. Ctrl-click the thumbnail icon in the Layers Palette to select the entire image and apply a Stroke of 1 pixel, set to outside. Using the Magic Wand randomly select the inside of a couple of boxes and create a new layer and apply the same stroke, Ocean Ripple technique and then free transform these boxes to be bigger. Select inside of the newly transformed boxes and select the under-lying layer and press Delete to erase the grid within the selection areas. Add some Guassian Blur and some Median set to 1 and Fade Filter set to Luminosity 50%, I also used the Smudge tool to ruddy up the lines here and there, then apply you're Bevel and Emboss your ready then to apply it to your masonary layer. 
Becky _________________ mad as a badger and twice as furry |
Posted on 14/09/04 3:29:18 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Wow ! Highly impressing, Maiden!! 
That looks very much like it. Even the structure makes a perfect base to work on. This is a marvellous approach I will try out to see what I can do with. I'm just getting more and more impressed over what Photoshop can do in the hands of a creative artist like yourself and I'm really sorry I haven't tried to explore it's possibilities until now. I mean, of course I could have "built" the entire wall in a proper 3D or CAD package, but producing a stone wall with irregularly sized geometry objects would have been very painstaking and time consuming business. Not to mention texturing the whole thing and wait the render out ... Non the less I *still* would have had to take it into Photoshop for that final touch-up. So, why not do the whole thing in Photoshop to begin with ? The result is just as good - if not better - and at a fraction of the time. I'm very, very thankful for your suggestions and pointers, Maiden. Hope I can return the favour sometime. Jiger. |
Posted on 14/09/04 3:38:08 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
That's okay, Jiger, I'm glad to have been of assistance. Steve is very busy at the moment and I had some spare time before work to play around with the filters and it's something I really like to do. Photoshop is viewed pretty much as an image manipulator, taking photos and tranforming them - But Photoshop has far greater depth and people are realising that it can be used to create artistic effects from scratch and with the help of Actions you can streamline much of the repetitive work. Check out tweaknik's website http://www.coolbubble.com much of his gallery is created from Photoshop tools and filters alone. Then then checkout Trinity of One's fantastic work too http://trinity-of-one.smugmug.com/ Becky _________________ mad as a badger and twice as furry |
Posted on 14/09/04 3:40:11 PM |
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tweaknik
Pixel Perfector Posts: 49 Reply  |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for. I'm assuming you want an easy way to quickly create a mask of unordered mixed size blocks. Open a new file and use the rectangular marquee to select an area the size of the largest block you want to use. Fill it with black, but don't deselect it. Select the Move tool. Hold down the Alt key (On PC) and click and drag the filled selection to where you would like another block placed (The block is now cloned). Repeat this step a number of times, distributing the large block around as much as you like. Now select 'Free transform' and reduce the size of the block a little. Clone the new block size around the canvas, fitting new blocks in where you like. Keep decreasing the block size and fitting new blocks in until you have filled the pictiure. Hope this is is of some help. 
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Posted on 14/09/04 3:58:08 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Hey you know that just might work if you roughed up the edges a bit with the smudge tool - just shows you how the harder the question the simplier the solution. it does work
Becky _________________ mad as a badger and twice as furry |
Posted on 14/09/04 4:44:33 PM |
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tweaknik
Pixel Perfector Posts: 49 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
groovy stuff |
Posted on 14/09/04 5:35:51 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Hmmmm..... Never thought of using blocks. Shows how locked down the mind can get when focusing on something. Actually, the blocks themselves are not as important as the space in between the blocks, but of course - you can just as well create the "tweens" by creating the surrounding space ( the blocks ). Yet another approach to explore !!
> >Check out tweaknik's website http://www.coolbubble.com > OMG!! That Naomi ( Matrix ) image just pops right out of the monitor !! Splendid, indeed. Actually, I've already encountered Trinity's site in another matter. You see, I started out this image hoo-ha's as a photographer and among other things I do photo editing and retouch work. > >Steve is very busy at the moment > I fully understand since I had a phonecall some hour ago from a slightly concerned editor saying something about a deadline ... Guess I'd better attend to it. Laters ! Jiger. |
Posted on 14/09/04 7:12:14 PM |
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trinityofone
Guest Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Maiden, I didn't notice you'd linked to my site, thanks
Jiger, how was it you came across mine..was it from here or elsewhere? _________________ It must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays |
Posted on 15/09/04 2:27:56 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Trinity. No, not from this site. It was som time ago, not too long but enough for slipping out of my Teflon-brain. I want to remember I did a search on Google for some reference images, but I can't rememeber if I found a direct link or if I was linked from somewhere else. What I *do* remeber is "Smugmug" and the images. I've got one of those minds that keep forgetting what peoples names are, but can remember endless combinations of useless numbers and rarely ever forget an image ones I've seen it. What did you say your name was... ? ..
Jiger. |
Posted on 15/09/04 2:36:42 PM |
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trinityofone
Guest Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Hehe, fair enough - I do that all the time, things become a blur after a while _________________ It must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays |
Posted on 15/09/04 5:01:48 PM |
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tabitha 1
Guest Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
not sure if this is any help for you but I stumbled across it when looking for a plastacine texture (Dont ask!), I thought it might be useful to the original thread? http://www.idigitalemotion.com/tutorials/guest/stonewall/stonewall.html |
Posted on 15/09/04 6:24:43 PM |
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Jiger
* Posts: 17 Reply |
Re: Instant irregular grid .. ?
Ok, Tabitha. I won't ask ... 
I came across something similar somewhere - or it could be this one... can't say. The wall is done already, so I won't be needing any more pointers. Never the less, this technique seems interesting enough to try out just to see where you can take it and how far. You never know when you need this kind of wall structures. As a bonus it was an interesting site all in all ( Idigitaldeamon.com ) which will definitly be added to my bookmarks - pronto. Thank you very much for letting me in on this one !! Jiger. |
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