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Posted on 15/06/06 02:46:31 AM |
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Morris
* Posts: 7 Reply |
Perspective and reflection
Hi Steve: love your book! I have found it very useful. I do have a question: I have been experimenting with a montage involving a piece of jewellery. I would like it to appear to be sitting on, and reflected in, a smoky glass table with a cloudy background extending from the back edge of the table to infinity. I have all the elements in place, no problemo. But I just can't get the 3D effect I am looking for with the table. It just looks vertically flat and very unnatural. So how do I create a flat horizontal surface, and make it look realistically 3D? Thanks for any suggestions you may have. Incidentally, here in Australia you book sells for $79.95. I bought it in Vancouver for $35! |
Posted on 15/06/06 08:05:29 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
I think it all depends on the position of the reflection: this will give the angle of the table. There are several other tricks you can use to accentuate the sense of a flat surface going away from you. Why don't you post the image in question, so we can see the problem better? Sounds like something we'd all like to have a go at! The book certainly seems pricey in Australia. Must be the cost of all those corks we have to dangle off the flaps. |
Posted on 15/06/06 11:39:26 PM |
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vibeke
Kreative Kiwi Posts: 2166 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Even worse in New Zealand, thank goodness for Amazon |
Posted on 16/06/06 05:43:20 AM |
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Morris
* Posts: 7 Reply |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Hi Steve: Thanks for your reply. I have attached (at least I hope I have done it correctly) a low res small size jpg copy of the picture. Given that it is an experiment I am conducting in order to figure out the techneque, I am not overly concerned about the finer points of the picture; ie; colours, etc etc. However, I think you can see what I am getting at. The milky white base does show the reflection, but the whole picture looks flat and lifeless. So, if I could get the 3D thing right, this picture would look much better, and I will then be able to apply the technique to a whole slew of other pitures I have lined up. Thanks for your help, and that of other readers. Morris PS: Regarding books and Amazon: I have bought books that are published here in Melbourne from Amazon in the USA. Buying them from Amazon was significantly cheaper than they are here, even after taking into account the exchange rate and postage from the USA. Go figure!  |
Posted on 19/06/06 6:19:16 PM |
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Deborah Morley
Makeover Magician Posts: 1319 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Hello, don't know if you've tried this but if you transform the table top with perspective the effects on it will fade to the back of the table and be smaller at the back as well which should help |
Posted on 20/06/06 06:27:39 AM |
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Morris
* Posts: 7 Reply |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Hi Deborah: Thanks for the tip. I did, in fact, try that but it still looked somewhat artificial. I am beginning to think that the problem is from my point of view. Ie: I am looking at the object from above at an angle of about 30 degrees from the horizontal; maybe if I rotate the picture so that I am looking from a different angle it may move the vanishing point and solve the problem. Over the next week or so, I will experiment with rotating the point of view and see what happens. However, I don't think that this solves the fundamental problem: taking the picture as given, how do I introduce the 3D effect of perspective? Isn't this the problem that was solved by Michaelangelo about 500 years ago? Regards Morris |
Posted on 20/06/06 09:22:23 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply |
Re: Perspective and reflection
That's a really tricky object to reflect: uneven shape, hard to see the points of contact with the surface. I think the best way is to break it into small pieces, put them all in a new layer group, and work that way. For example: beneath the loop on the far left there should be a reflection of the back part of the ribbon. So copy that area to a new layer, and move it down. Similarly, the bottom left portion (nearest to us) should be flipped as a new layer as well. The main problem, though, is with the surface it's sitting on: this looks flat and vertical, with no real sense of perspective. See my mini tutorial in the 100th Friday Challenge write-up for a better way of doing this! |
Posted on 20/06/06 5:49:36 PM |
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rufus
Destructive Demon Posts: 243 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Another problem is the shadow cast by the object. If the background is a wall that is some distance from the table there will be no vertical shadow at all. If the table is up against the wall there will be a shadow in two parts, ie. horizontal and vertical. Look at the picture below to see what I mean. 
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Posted on 20/06/06 9:55:31 PM |
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michael sinclair
Off-Topic Opportunist Posts: 1871 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Rufus, I've been staring and marveling at your illustration for a full ten minutes now, but cannot decide whether the brown glass jar is an actual photo or not 
Mike  _________________ Just because I've read a book doesn't mean that I know what I'm talking about...sigh! |
Posted on 20/06/06 10:45:56 PM |
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David Asch
Tech Support Posts: 1913 Reply  |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Yes, it is a real photo http://www.howtocheatinphotoshop.com/cgi-bin/simpleforum_pro.cgi?fid=06&topic_id=1132310631 _________________ A happy-go-lucky chap, always dressed in black |
Posted on 21/06/06 02:50:24 AM |
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Morris
* Posts: 7 Reply |
Re: Perspective and reflection
Hi Folks: Thanks for your replies. The brown jar seems to address the issue: In effect, the brown jar and my egg are both the same picture; ie:they are both an object on a flat horizontal surface, with a vertical surface behind. So, why is it that the brown jar picture seem to be more three dimensional than mine? The shadows across the table then up the wall seem to be producing the illusion of three dimensions. Is this the answer? Steve: I will check out your tutorial. Thanks for the tip. Regards to all. Morris |