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Posted on 03/11/06 8:23:18 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply  |
CMYK for Press....
Hello everyone! I'm having D.T.'s from not being on this forum as often as I'd like! This is my second week as a designer for a local newspaper company and I've been kicking and screaming for a bit of a break! J/k, but these deadlines are nerveracking! Anyhow, I had a little oopsie today when I sent my layouts to press... It turns out that one of my designs, which was made in Photoshop, printed nasty on the press. The guy told me over the phone that I had black on my CMY channels. As a result, black stuck through each C M Y and K plate... (What on earth does that mean??) So, he quickly told me to do the following: --hide C M Y channels and only have the black channel visible. --select all the black, you should have the marching ants --now, hide the black channel and show only the Cyan channel. Still with the marching ants-->copy-->hide Cyan channel-->show black channel-->paste. --do this for each channel: C M Y --Now with the same marching ants selection, hide all but C channel and delete-->hide all but M channel and delete-->Hide all but Y channel and delete. He said I should now have all my black represented on the Black Channel (i.e. black press plate) I asked him why did I have to go through this process with this ad...and not all the other CMYK layouts I've sent him in past publications and he said that I should do this with EVERY SINGLE process layout if it's going to print properly. All my other layouts printed properly, why should I have to do all this now? Thanks in advance, Chris |
Posted on 03/11/06 9:16:42 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Here's the layout that I'm having trouble with. I've deleted most of the advertisement so as not to cross any boundaries. 
When you open the image in photoshop and mess with the C M Y K channels, you'll see what my problem seems to be. Thanks again as I'm struggling to wrap my head around this one!  |
Posted on 05/11/06 6:04:12 PM |
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vibeke
Kreative Kiwi Posts: 2166 Reply  |
Re: CMYK for Press....
don't really know, I would have thought that if you had set your CMYK up in the colour profile to match the printers you should have been O.K. You should also be able to 'soft proof' your image. View Proof setup. However, what he suggestion isn't all that hard if you set it up as an Action. then you can do it each time with one click. |
Posted on 05/11/06 7:03:10 PM |
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Tom
Texture Technologist Posts: 402 Reply  |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Maybe I don't get your directions but it seems like they want to paste the black channel into the CMY channels then delete the CMY channels. What does that accomplish? The experience that I have had with newsprint is a registration problem with text. They wanted to remove the CMY from the black text layer. I did that with the channel mixer. |
Posted on 06/11/06 01:23:45 AM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
They wanted me to copy the black from each C M Y channel, paste it to the black channel and then go back and delete the black from each C M Y channel. Hope that helps, Tom. The first thing I did this morning was buy the Sunday paper and that layout printed horribly! There was a photograph of the $2500 winner with the car he purchased and that photograph printed nearly all black with purple as a skintone... I'm gonna get reimed in the morning! Oh well,...they know I'm self-taught. I only hope that I can fully understand the problem with this layout and not let it happen again. Thanks again, Chris |
Posted on 06/11/06 01:46:48 AM |
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Tom
Texture Technologist Posts: 402 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
I guess I don't understand the request. After I finish a layout, I will flatten, then proof it using the press profile that hopefully the press guy provides. Then change it to CMYK. Photoshop then separates the channels. That's the whole point. How do you get black into the CMY channels if the black is already isolated in it's own separate channel? |
Posted on 06/11/06 7:52:23 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Ok, after extensive research, a couple cups of coffee, and countless scratches to the forehead...here's what I basically found out: (please let me know if I am wrong with any of this) When Creating a layout for Newspaper Print: If you create and complete a layout in Photoshop using RGB mode, you will have to convert it to CMYK,..BUT when you convert an RGB layout to CMYK, Photoshop does not accurately separate the channels. Especially the black channel. As it turns out, black will be dispersed amongst the C M Y as well as the Black channel. As a result, the printed layout will sometimes appear either washed out or too dark. More than likely, it will appear washed out and the "pure black" areas of the layout will look like a dark gray on the Newspaper. So, the next time I create a layout in Phoshop, I'll have to begin in CMYK and never in RGB. Because the conversion from RGB to CMYK loses too much quality and accurate color representation. The technique that the guy showed me worked in that moving all the black that Photoshop was trying to represent using CMY channels into the K channel produced a "pure black" rather than a dark gray when printed on the newspaper. My problem turned out to be that instead of having my foreground set to black and background set to white when selecting, copying, and then deleting the "black" in each channel, my end result produced black hitting with all the CMYK plates. This is what funk-te-fied my layout so badly. I had the background set to black and foreground to white. ...oopsie 
In the end, my layout looks O.K. for the repeat print next week. Hopefuly, if I explained this correctly, it may prevent anyone from having the same headache of a problem as I, the next time they have something to go to Newspaper Press. --Chris |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:08:28 PM |
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Tom
Texture Technologist Posts: 402 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
I have not found this to be true. Would like to see some technical support for that. There are issues with newsprint like the amount of ink absorbed by the paper and CMY in the black. I only know enough about this to get by. But I have never heard of the black in CMY channels until now. My newsprint ads look fine. If you go to view>proof set up>custom, your can select simulate paper color to see how bad the ad will look like when printed on newsprint. BTW, what file type do you submit? |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:15:16 PM |
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Wayne
Printer’s Devil Posts: 312 Reply  |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Hi Chris What I think the press guy could be meaning was that there was too much press ink going down on the paper to make the black areas. Photoshop tends to use cmy and k to make black when sometimes just k will do. (This would equate to the flat area of black in your design) I think he was giving you a method of manually removing the colour from the cm and y separations and adding it to the k. There is an easier way. (Before you do this in a 'real-life' situation you should check with the printer to see if they have preferred settings, as different presses and different types of paper will give different results) Try this on a copy of your image. BEFORE you convert your image from RGB to CMYK for printing or separating, click Edit > Colour Settings. In the Working Spaces section of the dialog box, drop-down the CMYK menu and choose Custom CMYK. This opens the Custom CMYK dialog box. In the Separation Options section, choose GCR ( gray component replacement) and in the Black Generation drop-down menu choose Maximum. Now convert the image to CMYK. Compare the channels before and after, and run the eyedropper over the images. You will see that in the flat black areas on the after image, all the colour information has been transferred to the k channel. As I said before, not all presses would require this on every job, so check with the printer first to make sure! Oh and good luck with your boss!  |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:29:36 PM |
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Tom
Texture Technologist Posts: 402 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Yes, you need to get a press profile from them. This is an example of a proofing profile supplied by a newspaper.  |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:36:02 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Thanks for the advice, Wayne. I'll have to contact the guy in Athens to see about your suggestions. Tom, the technical support was what I gathered after speaking with the Press guy from Athens. But to illustrate how flat black is faded amongst CMY and K: Open a new document in CMYK mode. (Go to your channels pallet and watch the channels as you proceed with the next step) Make a selection, set the foreground color to black, use the paintbucket tool and fill in the selection with black. You'll see that black is not only represented in the K channel, but also in CMY. In order to get "pure black" to print on the newspaper, you'll have to select the black areas in C M Y and delete it from those channels. Then, paint pure black in the Black Channel. That way, the C M Y plates don't hit on your pure black areas. To answer your question, any image I make in photoshop has to be saved as a JPEG, then imported into Quark 6.5, and exported as a PDF to be sent to the Press server via internet. |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:46:06 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Oh, I see. I'll have to ask the guy from Athens about the press profile. It amazes me that this newspaper company has never used a press profile. After lookiing at the settings on this computer, they're all set to Photoshop's Default color settings! After asking my boss, she said that "well, we've never needed it before you started working."   |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:47:05 PM |
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Tom
Texture Technologist Posts: 402 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
I am intrigued, but still don't get the explanation. Saving as a jpeg is a big mistake. Photoshop has the ability to save your PSD file as a press quality PDF. With no loss of quality. |
Posted on 06/11/06 8:54:00 PM |
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tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply |
Re: CMYK for Press....
Sorry I can't answer more fully...I'm still very confused about this process. The past couple of weeks have been a breeze...It's just this one layout that has me banging my head against the wall. It's amazing how much one can learn by having a single "seemingly simple" problem on a layout. |
Posted on 06/11/06 9:12:48 PM |
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rufus
Destructive Demon Posts: 243 Reply  |
Re: CMYK for Press....
I've been trying to solve this one without success. I agree with Wayne that the printer gave you a method for manually removing the colour, but like Tom I couldn't get it to work. However I have tried Wayne's method and it works as described, I think this is the answer you're looking for. |