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Posted on 29/06/10 11:51:43 AM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Improve definition of an object in river water
In a disused Mill Pond in Suffolk I took a photo of a submerged grinding wheel in the flowing river. It is covered with plant growth and I would like to make its shape more prominent in the water. I have Photoshop CS3 extended version 10. Please can you advise what tools/actions/layers to use? Should I submit the photograph ? Thanks. Elona Rogers, Suffolk.  |
Posted on 29/06/10 12:27:47 PM |
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Steve Mac
Grunge Genie Posts: 539 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Hi Elona. Yes, a photo would help. |
Posted on 30/06/10 10:58:51 AM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Thank you Steve. I am new to Steve Caplin's Readers Forum and so learning 'on the hoof'. Here is the picture i would like to enhance - reduced to 1024x768 and as suggested by SC used PS to take the kb's down to the 40's I hope this works OK. Elona.   |
Posted on 30/06/10 3:20:45 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Hi Elona, The problem with the image is that it has a low contrast due to the reflection of light from the surface of the water therefore you need to increase that contrast. Copy the layer and change the blending mode of the new layer to 'Hard Light'. This will give an immediate increase in contrast. The image shown here had this new layer copied a second time still with Hard Light as the blending mode to emphasise the increase in contrast. Should you find, having copied the layer, that the effect is too much you adjust it by reducing the opacity of the layer. Light reflected from the surface of water is polarised. If you use a polarising filter on the camera when you take photographs like this it will cut out that polarised light and you will get a much better and more contrasty view under the surface. Just rotate the filter and you will see the effect in the viewfinder. Hope this helps. Gordon 
_________________ If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried. |
Posted on 30/06/10 3:35:01 PM |
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Mark Goodwin
**** Posts: 261 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Excellent work Gordon! Elona, did you shoot in RAW format? If so why not try to open in Raw and play around with the shooting preferences before sending to PS, this combined with Gordon's treatment could well improve the pic. However, a good rule of thumb to remember is that if the information you want is not in the picture in the first place, as wonderful as PS is it can't magic up stuff. Wish you lots of luck, and welcome to the forum I know there is a heck of a lot of knowledge on here, and a smashing bunch of folk. Regards Mark _________________ Mark Goodwin If you do what you have always done, you'll get what you've always got! |
Posted on 30/06/10 7:55:29 PM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Thank you so much Gordon - having an explanation as to why something is occurring helps enormously. I shall try out your PS suggestions tomorrow and see how I fare - the picture you have returned is certainly an improvement. Elona. |
Posted on 30/06/10 8:13:27 PM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Thank you for your encouraging letter, Mark. No i didn't shoot in Raw - I belong to the 'Broadland Digital Imaging Group' where Raw photography is encouraged , but i haven't yet delved - i will seriously apply myself now. I have a Canon EOS 350D with a Tamron lens, 18 to 200 zoom, but considering upgrading. The water and mill stone picture took my fancy because of the colours, the movement and ghosly image of the past, so used that to explore some of Steve Caplins PS technigues. I shall follow Gordons suggestions tomorrow to see what emerges. Elona. |
Posted on 01/07/10 08:43:11 AM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1768 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Hi Elona I saw the original post but wanted to see the image before commenting. I was going to suggest the polarising filter, as this seems the best approach. As Mark says, PS can only do so much and a good original image is essential. Regarding RAW, I never shoot anything else, because the flexibility and control is just not possible with JPEG. It does seem daunting at first, but you'll soon get to grips with the PS RAW Converter and will never go back to JPEG again. The only disadvantage is that RAW can make photographers lazy, as so much can be rescued in software. Try dual or triple RAW conversions, i,e, make separate conversions for different elements in the picture and blend them in PS. Nick |
Posted on 01/07/10 09:14:16 AM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
You say you have Photoshop CS3 extended, Elona - If you open the jpeg up in Adobe Bridge and select it then press (Ctrl + R) or (Cmd + R) on the Mac it will open the Jpeg into Camera Raw where at least you have some flexibility over exposure, saturation, recovery etc. However, it's not quite as flexible as if you had a RAW image to start with but there are plenty of options in Camera Raw to allow you to tweak a jpeg image. The advice from both Gordon and Nick is very solid advice - always use a polarising filter when shooting water and shoot in RAW format. Becky |
Posted on 01/07/10 12:36:04 PM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
I had no idea that so much help is 'out there' - I am so thrilled with the advice that has been given and that people have taken the trouble to write to me. I have tabled a sequence of things i must now do to put all the ideas into practise/practice. Thank you Nick. |
Posted on 01/07/10 12:44:59 PM |
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Elona Rogers
* Posts: 25 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
What an amazing response to this query - thank you so much Becky - i am learning by the minute - i really didn't know that i could put a jpg into Raw. I will try it out and also apply myself to Gordon's suggestions and to my camera Raw function - I've been lazy Ithink. I shall now contact 7Dayshop com to order a polarising filter too - with plans to photograph the Rver Waveny next week. Elona. |
Posted on 01/07/10 1:01:23 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Elona, Make sure you order a 'circular polariser'. Thats not the shape it's the type of polarization that you require. A 'linear polarising filter' will not allow the autofocus system to work on your camera. Gordon _________________ Why isn't 'phonetic' spelled the way it sounds? |
Posted on 01/07/10 1:01:30 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
_________________ If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried. |
Posted on 02/07/10 00:32:37 AM |
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Steve Mac
Grunge Genie Posts: 539 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Gordon, I think you just like seeing your avatar... |
Posted on 02/07/10 08:54:48 AM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Finger trouble with a friend's iPad! It was a little slow and I entered the post three times. I really must change the avatar sometime - that pic was shot in 1989!! _________________ Why is there only one body to investigate Monopolies ? |
Posted on 02/07/10 10:03:51 AM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply  |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Some great advice and agree. Just a small point Elona, when you get the polorizing filiter, if you insall on top of your UV filter, you might get a little vignetting on wide-angle, but it is a really small problem. Crop or clone etc fixes so easy. BTW I dont think polorized filters work well in diffused light, your shot should be great in the sun, but they are also great shooting bright sky with clouds!! Remember to rotate as Gordon says to get best effect. Its quite weird to see how the image changes when you do that. You can get none circular polorized filers too, but the circular works fine for me with Canon sensor and lenses. Here is a polorized shot (I think?), cropped, doubt its helps your problem, but do try again..... can always cheat and paste it in there with soime PS magic 
http://www.howtocheatinphotoshop.com/cgi-bin/simpleforum_pro.cgi?fid=12&topic_id=1273528918 Enjoy HTCIP forum, Trevor |
Posted on 02/07/10 10:13:48 AM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Trevor, You are correct about a polarising filter not working in diffuse light as the light is not polarised but reflections from a water or glass surface will still be polarised. If you have a bright blue sky the most polarised light will be at 90 degrees to the sun. So the best effect is with the sun at your shoulder as you shoot. _________________ Why is there only one word for ‘Thesaurus’? |
Posted on 02/07/10 2:11:14 PM |
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Mark Goodwin
**** Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
I would leave the avatar as it is Gordon, after all how much could you have changed in 21 years???? 
Mine was taken in 2004....but I aint changing a thing!!!   _________________ Mark Goodwin If you do what you have always done, you'll get what you've always got! |
Posted on 02/07/10 10:25:57 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Yeah! Maybe you're right, Mark. 21 years isn't that a long time! I'm sure I still look pretty much the same
_________________ Why isn't 'phonetic' spelled the way it sounds? |
Posted on 03/07/10 2:23:08 PM |
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Mark Goodwin
**** Posts: 261 Reply |
Re: Improve definition of an object in river water
Excellent Gordon!! 
And an amazing likeness to my late Mother-in-law! _________________ Mark Goodwin If you do what you have always done, you'll get what you've always got! |
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