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Posted on 04/07/13 7:17:09 PM |
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Sjef
Flying Dutchman Posts: 571 Reply  |
Big document
Hello Photoshoppers, Is there anyone who can advice me about how to avoid big Photoshop-documents? Which processes do I avoid and which processes make small documents? I think about maybe shut out Smart Object or lots of Groups. Or maybe avoid as many Masks as possible by Applying Layer Masks after the mask-painting is done? I suppose all these steps shrinks the document, but which option place the most load on the document? I have tried to flatten all Layers of one document and load this file into a second document, but that's not very workable if I want to adjust something in the flattened Layer after all...  |
Posted on 04/07/13 8:52:38 PM |
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BigVern
Q Quipper Posts: 674 Reply  |
Re: Big document
My tips would be: To avoid duplicating whole layers where possible as that can add lots of fat to the file. Instead only duplicate parts of an image if it is necessary to duplicate at all. Also use adjustment layers as placeholders for layer blend adjustments. i.e. add a curves adjustment layer above an image layer but make no adjustments with it. Instead change its blend mode to screen or multiply or overlay and see the tonal difference. Also try using blank layers to clone onto rather than copying a layer to clone onto. This retains flexibility but keeps the file lower fat. Also make a selection before using the liquify filter so that only that part is liquified and not the whole layer. Also work in 8 bit wherever possible rather than 16 or 32 bit as that will reduce file size; of course if you need the higher bit depth for smooth gradients, HDR etc. then this might not be an option. Also, if you are certain of a crop then select delete cropped pixels to trim away excess file size. As you suggested incremental flattening of the layers once you are happy can save huge amounts but i generally save versions of the .PSD as i go to ensure i can go back if I need to. A variation of this is to create parts of the overall composite in different files and save them. Then bring over flattened versions into a master composite. This is how Bert Monroy works to create his massive photoshop images with thousands of layers overall but components to the master saved across many many files. That's a quick brain dump ... I'll try and think of more ... I am sure Steve and the other forum members will have lots of ideas. _________________ "Why so serious?" The Dark Knight |
Posted on 05/07/13 07:24:19 AM |
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Sjef
Flying Dutchman Posts: 571 Reply |
Re: Big document
Thanks a lot BigVern, for this big brain dump. Especially the use of Adjustment Layers as placeholders for layer blends is new to me. I seldom use the crop tool deleting the unused pixels. I'll keep this option in mind more often. Reading your tips I'd suppose it's the layers that adds the most data to the file. I've been stumbling about the use of Convert to Smart Object, but a 1 MB file with two layers gets almost 2 MB when converted to a smart object. So I'll try to avoid this option. • Your tip about saving to different files I'd think is the best. Although this can give troubles with the ordering of layers, I experienced. Maybe saving more of these different file parts will do the trick. Thanks again! |
Posted on 05/07/13 07:36:55 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply  |
Re: Big document
Why do you need to reduce the file size so dramatically? I thought at first you were running out of memory, but then you mention a 1 MB file becoming a 2 MB file when converted to a Smart Object. These are tiny file sizes! What's the purpose of the size reduction? By the way, great suggestions, Vern. |
Posted on 05/07/13 11:14:31 AM |
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Sjef
Flying Dutchman Posts: 571 Reply |
Re: Big document
Well, my system has 8 GB RAM, and with two scratch disk I don't think I'd run out of memory. No, I'm afraid of not being able of loading my work the next time, considering the time of loading and saving my current project. It takes some time to load 400 Mb into Photoshop (CS5) and I'm just afraid that Photoshop one day stops the loading progress. Or some editing process (for instance using the text engine) corrupts the whole file. All because of my ignorance of how big a Photoshop file can be and which processes are better to avoid. Once I had to save and reload my file, after working with rounded text. I couldn't apply any of the FX-effects, which was solved after reloading. That's why I began to doupt the stability of Photoshop when working with big files with lots of layers and masks. The 1 MB file I mentioned was only a quick test of course! |
Posted on 05/07/13 12:57:12 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply |
Re: Big document
Ah - I see. One solution is to merge layers together when you're sure you want them that way, but to save the constituent parts to a new document and save that separately. Incidentally, the first two versions of Photoshop didn't have layers at all. You added a selection to a montage, made your decision about where it would go and how big it would be, and that was it. Things were different then! |
Posted on 05/07/13 5:05:18 PM |
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Artwel
Satire Supremo Posts: 607 Reply  |
Re: Big document
Sjef, Looking at some of your work, such as the train, I can completely understand your problem. Try and work on smaller sections rather than doing everything in the same file. Then you can piece them together later. Do you have a 64bit computer? I may be wrong but I think Photoshop only utilises 2GB Ram on a 32bit system (such as mine!). Playing around with the Preferences ; Edit>Preferences>Performance, can make those large, slow loading files open much quicker. Or upgrade the HardDisk to an SSD for super-fast loading times.. http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-performance-photoshop-cs4-cs5.html I am still waiting patiently for the new Macbook Retina to be released, hopefully that will solve all these slow loading times! 
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Posted on 05/07/13 5:07:00 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply  |
Re: Big document
Probably not much help.... I guess I'm sure what I am doing is different to you, but I can open 1.3 GB file very quickly with CS5 and extended, Windows 7, 6GM memory and Intel CORE i5. 14 seconds. Image size 4999 x 3749 pix or 53x40cm @ 240 pix/inch. The original image was 54Mb, and if eventually flattened layers would save as that I guess. Only my work flow, I save .psd copies quite frequently as can always go back to recover a bad edit and get the layers back. Of course the other guys suggestions seem very helpful and beyond my details. I just give comparison of my experience and PS CS5 with my platform does not seem to crash any more (don't talk about XP!, Pentium D and 2GB unless you treat it nicely  Hence habit to save copies). (I have a MacBook Pro i7 too, but another story and off topic)
Sorry guess not much help Sjef |
Posted on 05/07/13 5:51:04 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: Big document
I just saw Arwel's comments after I posted. Seem helpful. Small comment for Performance aspect, I give a generous 71% of RAM to PS. I run several other applications simultaneously. They don't complain
(As I'm sure you know you do need to close PS after a few sessions so it can purge some the memory/disk/session baggage it is carrying "otherwise can starts to get stuck deeper in the mud". Restarting the OS occasionally for same reason. Plus same de-fragment, ( an artefact required by design by MS OS)) |
Posted on 05/07/13 6:48:45 PM |
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Sjef
Flying Dutchman Posts: 571 Reply |
Re: Big document
Steve, many thanks for your reply. I'm glad my Commodore 64 is long gone. On my first PC I didn't use Windows, but GEOS. Let alone that I worked with Photoshop 1 or 2 
Jota120, Nowadays I use Win7 and an i5, same as you. I don't mind to wait loading a big file into Photoshop for as long I can trust nothing goes wrong or nothing went wrong when I save it. On my system it's 58% and I'll get into this option. Thanks for sharing this persentage. Artwel - I suppose my 64 bits system can pretty much handle big files (Performance: Let Photoshop Use: 4206 MB). And yes, Photoshop runs on my SSD startdisk, with two scratch-partitions on different harddisks. In the end I may conclude there is no rough remedy to keep big PSD files smaller. All reactions include the separation of a big file into small files. I'll investigate what's the best way to do this, without often have to recall this separate files to rearrange the layers and maybe sometimes have to relocate layers from one smaller file to the other and flatten them again. That gets very complicated. Bert Monroy give extra alfa channels to separated areas, but that's between Photoshop and Illustrator. I wouldn't know how to use this methode between Photoshop files. So thank you all for think along with me and I'm especially very very glad on YOUR LINK ARTWELL to that 'Optimize performance' page at Adobe's web. I did seek, but ye shall not find. And this is just the right page to study!! 
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Posted on 06/07/13 10:11:21 AM |
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Sjef
Flying Dutchman Posts: 571 Reply |
Re: Big document
Having read the webpage which Artwel linked me to (http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-performance-photoshop-cs4-cs5.html), I did some changes in the Preferences and tried out some options. Like turning off Export Clipboard in Preferences»General and others (see below). My new 'project' is (untill now) about 390 MB. When I flatten most Groups it shrinks to 155 MB. Nice but irrevocable. After converting every Group to Smart Objects the file became almost 485 MB. It's bigger, but the Performance got a lot faster then the one with all the Layers in Groups! Loading, saving and zooming is a laugh now and everything else seems to go smoother. Dragging a Smart Object over the workscreen goes a lot faster than dragging a Group! So converting Groups into Smart Objects, I think it's great after all! I haven't figured out though why most Smart Objects appear independent on a workscreen which has the same perimeters as the object (enclosed with its own background, say 400x400px), which is fine, while some Smart Objects appear small at their original place against the original 8000x5333px background, which obliges me to zoom into the right place. Surged on the internet (for hours!), but haven't found anything on this different behaviour yet. A Group converted to a Smart Object and than later dragged into another file becomes a Group again. That's it for now... 
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