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Posted on 14/06/12 4:57:39 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply  |
The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
I'd like to share this with the HTCIP team to cast your critical eye over these photos and explain why they are most definitely Photoshopped. Gems on the Thames: London landmarks mirrored in river |
Posted on 14/06/12 5:37:32 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply  |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
Becky! You astonish me! Are you really suggesting that The Sun is telling porkies? At least many of the comments on their own web page have noticed something is not quite kosher. 
Maybe something that Lord Justice Leveson should include in his enquiry? _________________ You're never too old to learn something stupid. |
Posted on 15/06/12 08:36:52 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply  |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
I think they probably are genuine - surely if someone was going to fake them, they'd fake them rather more convincingly? Maybe truth really is stranger than fiction. |
Posted on 15/06/12 09:33:37 AM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
There are many elements in all of the images that could not possibly be seen in an actual reflection or at least would be partially obscured. One example is the blue lit structure on the round base of Tower Bridge; you can see the entire structure reflected in the 'water' whereas in real life you probably wouldn't be able to see any of it. The same also applies to to the road arch in the nearest supporting tower which could not possibly be seen in reflection in its entirety and, probably, not at all. In the image of the Houses of Parliament there are buildings in the background that could not possibly be reflected. This perspective problem is there in all the images. The Thames is tidal at this point and could not possibly be this calm as the flow of water is either going one way or the other. I have never seen it anything other than choppy to very, very choppy with a very fast current flowing most of the time. There is not a single ripple on any of the images. _________________ 90% of the work takes 10% of the time. 10% of the work takes 90% of the time. |
Posted on 15/06/12 11:38:17 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
It all depends on the viewing angle. In the Tower Bridge shot, we can see the underside of the bridge - which suggests that the camera is almost exactly at water level (a point borne out by the angle of the base of the tower, where it meets the water). If the camera really is that low, then the reflection will potentially be exactly the same as the scene above it. The water does appear unnaturally calm, yes. But I assume (a) a very long exposure, and (b) a series of exposures comped together using Image Stacks. In this case, any rippling on the surface would be averaged out and we could end up with an image like this. Again: if you were going to fake it, wouldn't you ripple the surface? |
Posted on 15/06/12 12:22:23 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
_________________ You're never too old to learn something stupid. |
Posted on 15/06/12 12:22:47 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
This is a shot that I took about a year ago. Amazingly it must have been shot from almost exactly the same place as the Sun's image as many elements in the photograph line up very closely. The image was taken on the embankment and not at water level and yet you can still see the underside of the bridge. If you look at what appears to be a flag pole to the right of the nearer tower it is somewhat in the background. If the photographer was at water level this would disappear from view. Indeed the entire background would change in perspective yet it is in pretty much the same place as on my image. If the camera was at water level then surely the nearer cable support would appear above the farther one in perspective? So my conclusion is that the shot was taken well above water level. I'm not even sure that you can get down to water level at this point on the river. If you or I or any members of the forum were creating this image then, yes, we would ripple the surface to try to make it appear less faked but are we dealing with a photographer who doesn't understand that and just flips the original and shears it to fit? 
_________________ You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice. |
Posted on 15/06/12 1:13:51 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
Now I'd say your image is definitely a fake! |
Posted on 15/06/12 1:36:21 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4033 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
_________________ 90% of the work takes 10% of the time. 10% of the work takes 90% of the time. |
Posted on 16/06/12 07:48:44 AM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1768 Reply  |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
Photoshop all the way with these! Oh and I seem to recall a challenge recently with a row of houses where the reflection couldn't possibly be like a mirror!! I walk across the Millennium Bridge each morning and evening and the river is never still. The Thames is tidal and has a difference of approx 6 - 7 metres between low and high water at the pool of London. The river at high water can be incredibly rough and we must remember the the volume of traffic on there is heavy at times with tugs, clippers and pleasure boats. It never has time to become still! The surface is very much calmer at low water, but never without a ripple. So looking at the shots, the Palace of Westminster is taken at high water, Tower Bridge at just below maximum and the Mn Bridge, well, that's where he really gives the game away. At medium water, there is a beach area, which starts at the City of London School on the left and it gets progressively bigger towards the right. His reflection point on the bridge pillars is where the level would be at high water level and he hasn't even managed the same level on both supports!. Have a look at the shot I've attached, which was taken one morning when the level was slightly higher than in his shot. If the water is at a medium level, then the tide is either going in or out. The flow is quite incredible and you just wouldn't want to be in there. It certainly isn't like a millpond. Therefore fake all the way m'lud and I just cannot believe why any editor would waste valuable news space publishing this rubbish. Of course, silly me, it is the Sun after all, but there is a vague chance it could all be a big joke, or the girls from page 3 were busy that day. Let's think of a Sun-like headline - perhaps Balmy Calmy or something like that. 
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Posted on 16/06/12 08:05:46 AM |
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vibeke
Kreative Kiwi Posts: 2166 Reply  |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
Steve, I thought you have taught us that reflections are always darker? _________________ Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize. |
Posted on 16/06/12 9:29:25 PM |
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Paul 2007 thru 2010
Lego Legend Posts: 361 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
How would that work? Long exposures of moving water have a foamy appearance. A reflection in even slightly moving water on a long exposure would look blurred and not sharp as in these photos. If you read the text he is only available on weekends to take these photos. How did he manage to get THREE different photos all with a perfectly calm Thames. If he sat there for a year with his finger poised over his shutter release he'd be extremely lucky to get it once.
In that case then why, when you flip the reflection back up, is the view under the left hand part of the bridge at a different angle to the original but everything else is the same? 
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Posted on 17/06/12 01:22:40 AM |
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tooquilos
Wizard of Oz Posts: 2902 Reply  |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
For what its worth, Ive taken hundreds of night shots of city lights, water and reflections and I must say I have never achieved these results. I would be curious to know what settings/technique this person has used with his photography to get this look.  _________________ Dorothy: Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore |
Posted on 18/06/12 07:35:32 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7047 Reply |
Re: The Sun Newspaper claims these photographs are genuine
OK, I'm convinced! Sometimes I can just be too trusting. |